tv World Apart with Oxana Boyko RT June 23, 2013 6:29am-7:01am EDT
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favorite. if you're away from your television well it just doesn't matter how would your mobile device so you can watch your t.v. anytime anywhere. hello and welcome to worlds apart with the syrian army making strategic advances and the west increasingly has a tent over its support of the rebels it looks like the rumors of the assad government's demise have indeed been greatly exaggerated but it is quelling the military rebellion enough to bring peace to syria to discuss that i'm now joined by amar what cost syrian political commentator mr mike afaik. very much for your time
now after predicting an imminent fall of the assad government for almost two years they german intelligence services have actually reversed that forecast now and they believe that it is more likely that assad government will survive this crisis maybe all on these very rare occasion you actually would agree with the western aftermath of the situation in syria the issue that that was not very clear from the very beginning to the western estimators of the crisis was the level of the true support that the current government in syria really had now this support was always divided into different sections but accumulated they form a large proportion of the of the syrian population you have obviously the diehard president assad supporters or is the those who support or would support the government no matter what the situation is and then you have those who do not trust the opposition's intentions and then you have others who feel the directly
threatened by the opposition's intention i think the the shift popular support is crucial here especially on the eve of the presidential elections that are expected to take place in two thousand and fourteen i wonder whether you think that this vote is likely to take place and most importantly whether bashar al assad is likely to put up his candidacy if or for those elections i think a fair forecast of the syrian future would be to have if nobody having an equal chance to prevent to present themselves or to present their followers who says with a certain project of reconciliation and restructuring in syria and if president assad proves to be popular then i think fairness says that he should leave the country let alone now of course there are no polls that we can really rely on to assess the extent of the public support that bashar assad enjoys in the in the country from my own personal experience in syria i think the the support. quite
substantial but regardless of his support domestically he does not enjoy that much support internationally and i wonder whether event if he runs and. if he wins do you think the so-called international community will leave syria long will allow syria to heal its. grasp of the peace building i think that's a very important question and that's a very huge challenge for whoever becomes president of syria and if we think that president assad will continue to be syria for another purpose for another ten years of seven years then most probably he will find it a little bit difficult to frequency syria with its immediate surroundings of the arab states let alone the western countries who have combined spent a lot of resources to try and topple him but that is although this is an issue what is in the minds of syrians is to you know little the international community learn
the lesson that no matter how much they try nothing is going to happen unless syrians in their majority approve of it but i think that blessed to be taught to the western community and to your immediate neighbors would be very costly for syrians themselves because you have to keep in mind that once the war is over and it's still not over but if we were to imagine that this military active military phase is over syria. we'll be faced with the enormous reconstruction and rebuilding challenge and for that you will need all the support you can gather to help your country rebuilt and you can't really ignore the standing of bashar al assad and the international community so all typically it's not only about the will of the syrian people it's also about how that will is perceived in the west them do you really think that syria can manage the rebuilding challenge on its own is one thing that is very specific about the syrian mentality how syrians view this issue is pretty
much focused around the word independence now we have been over the past decades really since our independence from france been willing generation after generation to pay if you price for our independence we've never had a great economy unlike neighboring countries by the way i agree with you and i think syria syria syria has been under international sanctions on their western sanctions for quite some time and i think many syrian economists would argue that if and i think that hard period is self-reliance self-sufficiency but you also have to recognize the extent of the challenge that you're facing because if the government was to reconciliation and rebuilding effort the costs would be astronomical and we also have to keep in mind that the economic ability of the air earning capacity of the syrian government is extremely handicapped now so again big like the big challenges enormous but the ability of to deliver them in is very
limited it is very limited however again there are priorities in life and we are all thinking about what to bequeath to our new generations to our children grandchildren this notion of independence that we inherited from our fathers and grandfathers is very important for us to preserve it will cost us we know so it's not going to be a good challenge there are all sorts of numerous challenges there are economical challenges with regards to rebuilding information the. infrastructure developing it rebuilding the houses that have been dispersed the destroyed you know replace the people who have been displaced from their houses you know either internally or externally and bringing up the social fabric once more there are quite a few challenges and the government that would be able to lead such an initiative is going to be perceived by everyone as fairly put in place which again reemphasizes the need for a full democratic process but it's not going to be easy left me ask you straight i
understand that the more a president assad is asked to step down especially. during a time of war the lasky can i afford to do so but once syria transitions to a peace building do you think it's in syria's best interest to have. somebody like him in power because he's obviously an extremely polarizing figure i'm even if he manages to be the bass president he can be the ultimate performance will still be on their mind by his own persona by and by the way this persona is perceived internationally rather than domestically so is it in serious best interest to have somebody like that at the top of the country i'm not asking about villages and i see i'm not asking about a democratic right of the people to live team i'm asking about the practicality of that choice and whether he can solve should abstain from running in those elections and i think i think you're touching on very important points here so with regards
to him as a person he has definitely suffered from a lot of you know smearing and the past two years in the outside world and the arab world and a lot of people now see him rather as a monster and should be but it does not put a lot of people stood by the current government but it is not in our interest to to have a president in syria where part of the population. rise up in arms against the government and have support from an outside force in order to enforce. their political will on another part of the people that's why a lot of syrians stood by the government and they have presented a lot of their sons as marketeers i disagree with you that president assad doesn't have a choice because i think because of the all of that western intervention and all the calls for him to step down i think the the whole future of syria is actually rests on the decision of that one man i agree with that he enjoys enormous public
support but i think that this public support and the extent of that support may actually work against syria's syria's interest it's ultimately asking him to make that decision of whether or not he's going to run the point of the matter is that there are a lot of people who have presented their sons and property to the benefit of chris . the current government as an illegitimate and workable framework now whether president assad. goes for election and presents himself as a candidate or not in the next year or two that's up to him what we are fighting for is his right as a person just like any other syrian to go on and present himself as a candidate that's what we are fighting for it's a matter of principle not a matter of a person i personally you know agree with you that it is going to be very hard for any syrian government led by president assad to open very rapidly to at least at
least the surrounding gulf states the surrounding middle east and so on and so forth however there are other things to take into consideration which is how are the syrian people going to be willing or how much the syrian people are going to be willing to participate effectively in rebuilding their country if we now deprive those people of the right for this person to become a candidate for the next elections how do you guarantee that those people are going to be willingly participating in building of syria doesn't only take outside support to build syria it needs the inside will the will of its inside people of its own people to do the same i agree that the balance is extremely fine but again as you pointed out what's important is these two factors not only the support of the domestic support for assad unfortunately for for syria but also the so-called goodwill of the international community now r.t.
had a chance to ask president bashar assad what he himself thinks about the role of the president in syria and here is what he had to say president cannot do anything without institutions and revote support of the people so the fight is not presidents for the syrians for every syrian regime for. skulk you know now so essentially president assad here talking about democracy talking about the right of the people to elect that president but mr walker flats let's be honest here i mean i think having these democratic talk is extremely naive us in a region of when you can openly support armed groups that would wager urban of warfare against the will of the syrian people after all nobody after the syrian people if they want to have this war in their country and nobody will as down if they are willing to. continue with that war if some countries were to choose to
support those armed groups and then the tragedies of course is that those countries are likely to choose to support violence and massacres in syria as long as president bashar assad is in power that's a valid argument however we need as syrians to learn lessons on why we came under this fire to say this is what has been totally you know an outside factor isn't accurate in its entirety syrian's yes since the invasion of iraq in two thousand and three have been subject to the usual propaganda of a religious nature of a sectarian nature and this has culminated and broke into two thousand and eleven and gave the those who went up in arms against the government a lot of legitimacy and a lot of motivation actually of the sectarian division since two thousand and three invasion of iraq however we need as rational syrians as those who are in a position to have at least you know the ability to look forward we need to diffuse
certain elements that agitate you know public opinion and give motivation for people to receive advice and let alone arms from the side this is a crucial argument but we will continue that discussion right after the break here on worlds apart. i would rather ask questions for people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on r.t. question more. welcome
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the growth of celebrity who did it by paid for what i've done that was never stop a. welcome back to worlds apart president assad has long defied. western pressure to step down but shouldn't he do it of his own volition we are discussing that we have a marvel syrian political commentator mr i reported extensively from syria and i. do try to engage with. people who hold different political views in syria so last year i had a chance to sit down for an interview with abdul aziz al hare somebody who spend fourteen years in prison during the rule and here's what he had to say on the prospect of political reconciliation in syria. in what's called for it.
to congress the military groups first of all the regime certain groups over those that it's hard it's high time indeed to come to a cease fire to start negotiations about what to do. there have been reports that mr al harry is back in detention but. regardless of his current circumstances he's certainly somebody who has died have an axe to grind with the assad family and yet he's the one who. it's calling for a political dialogue but what do you do with those who would rather die than see any sort of political dialogue with president bashar al assad you have people who are desperate to get any gain from their what they perceive as their legitimate struggle over the past two years in order to justify the destruction the blood. and
everything that they have taken the country towards that's why they insist on for example president assad stepping down that would be for them a game that would legitimacy legitimize their struggle however there are rational people people who are you know experienced enough and know that the government is not going to for any soon and that the only. way forward if this is going to continue is more destruction and more bloodshed what do you do with the minority that will continue fighting and. messing with the society no matter what yes we've seen that time and time again throughout the past two years for example the u.n. have successfully brokered a couple of cease fires between the government and between the government forces and the rebels but that didn't last because you have so many small warlords all over the place and each of them runs his own mind so what we're having now at the
moment is that the international community is trying to push the syrian political wing opposition political wing into dialogue with the government but at the same time they are sending signals that they will be arming those people i think that is a grave mistake those people on the ground who have the weapons should be told in or uncertain terms that if a political process is on they should at least not get support this aura of invincibility around those people should disappear for any political dialogue or any political process to have a chance of succeeding regardless of how small is the number of those diehard elements the problem is that of course that be ecstatic hatred and violence. to concise proportions in syria that it's no longer to political issue it's no longer an issue of democracy it's an issue of changing dynamics within the society and
once the society gatson t.v.'s. war dynamic it's extremely difficult to pull it back and the question again comes back to president assad because those. elements you can argue that they're in the minority but those elements who fuel based violence in syria they would agree to not thing last and then getting rid of bashar assad so sooner or later you will have to agree to that demand in order to avoid that and even the bigger evil i guess what would be the god in t. that if president assad is forced to leave office and i stress on the work force if he chooses to leave that's fine but he is forced what would be the go on t.v. for his supporters not to carry arms against the new government mr barak i'm not arguing for processing him to leave office what i'm arguing for is that as a leader as somebody who or obviously loves his country i think here his should really take into consideration whether or not he's wrong is indeed pacifying or
dividing in syria and i would argue that maybe it would not be the bast option for him to run in those elections even if he finds that the level of support is enormous simply because again the the influence that he has both on domestic and international affairs is highly polarizing but it would be up to him as a president of the republic to assess the situation and choose what is the best for syria what we a syrian citizens are concerned with at the moment is to provide him with the right to provide the current government with the right to run through a democratic process where they can actually prove themselves either to be right or to be wrong and that will only be through the people now going back to your question with regards to these strong decisions indeed. and tension that has you know built up throughout the past two years you know within the syrian society. as a syrian citizen i i am all in hope that once this once the dust settles down.
people would go back to a lot of the material that was news that was circulated and discovered that a lot of them with of a propagandist nature of the videos for example were fabricated a lot of you know all these things would i know people to start asking questions did we really need to go that far did we really need to destroy our country for one month to step down and that sort of you know learning of lessons is going to reconcile i hope this is the one smaller and start to build bridges across the you know the very deep divisions that are there at the moment well i think you're bringing up a very interesting point of propaganda and i heard you saying on some of your earlier interviews that we shouldn't or rather the western commentators shouldn't compare bashar al assad to you more market off your saddam hussein and i see where
you're coming from but i also think that. in bringing out that imagery you're actually playing into their western rhetorical tactics because i think you can find fault with any given leader including president bashar al assad but obviously. the problem is that those leaders that the i just mentioned where made into devil's incur and then essentially overnight the west was more or less find it dealing with them until that decision to get rid of them was made so i think the propaganda machine is extremely powerful but the question is whether you are sometimes aiding it to yourself well there are two propaganda machines one that is preparing the western public opinion for any sort of political move like getting rid of prison we need to demonize him to invade syria there are some sort of talk about you know chemical weapon use and so on but the most devastating propaganda was from the
surrounding arab countries especially from the like. of qatar and saudi arabia and the those propaganda machines played immediate. directly on the nerves and emotions of syrians from the very start of the crisis and lit people more and more agitated there was a lot of bloodshed that was emphasized there were a lot of fabricated videos little all the propaganda that has risen the sectarian hatred in syria since the invasion of iraq that was coming mainly from saudi arabia i think syria syrians were not the first people to experience that i think pretty much the same thing happened in libya and i already mentioned the name of more market off and i think he was one of those rare world leaders who really really attempted at some point in history to make a transition from being perceived as a pariah of the international community to trying to become a more accepted leader and i think for some limited period of time he was pretty
successful i mean he was receiving presidents of france and britain and libya just a couple of years before that freising so my question to you is do you think there is any hope for president bashar al assad to rebuild his reputation internationally and is there any chance for the international community to embrace him as a legitimate leader of his people provided of course that he wins that two thousand and fourteen election well if we think about syria as its own. you know if we frame the whole issue in the middle east around syria then probably it's going to be hard but if we think of syria at the moment as it really is which is a t.v. for international competition then syria will become you know part of you know some reasonable do use some international deals that would make it easier for the western countries in specific to accept you know the president assad. you know that
is remaining in office. at least running for that office and he you know really embrace him in a sense probably at arm's length aren't know it would be very hard for them to step down from the position from the ladder that they have you know you know insert you know it in gov themselves or got up to it if they've gone very high he needs to go and this was very from the very beginning to step down it's going to be very hard for them but they might not have a any other choice just like they did with mammal qadhafi when they you know started to after the post iraqi war they started to really embrace him again president assad is unlike duffy he's still young. he still enjoys a lot of support in syria and it would be very rational for them to do so and so he will cave probably we were deceived by the saudis probably we were deceived by the qataris i think of rationality unfortunately is not the quality that is rolling
international politics these days and to your earlier point i think precisely because many countries treat syria as these platform for waging proxy geopolitical battles it is said the main reason why we have such an enormous death toll in syria because nobody treat syria as a country but unfortunately all we have time for now please join us again same place same time here on the part. of the perfect material it's a lie you make just a small change and you get a totally different result than what a pretty top. goal says his little complicated. geometry
we start by marking out the incision lines as a. very intricate work. my life has changed a hundred percent of. the field operating table here more than just a very small table as long as i had a flashlight and a working battery and i had a good enough environment to work it. was among them along with some other terrorist leaders. he's reminiscing about. looking at you but at the same time he's somewhere else. when i watched this of course it was michelle like me at soul and. it's someone totally different or a new someone i don't look you're wealthy british style it's time to look for.
breaking news this hour r.t. sources say n.s.a. whistleblower edward snowden already in moscow though is thought that the russian capital not his final destination. wiki leaks claims one of its legal advisors accompanying snowden after the whistle blowing organization secured papers a safe exit and asylum quote in an unnamed democratic state. look at the week's top stories despite a chilly start talks at the g. eight lead to a rare show of solidarity officials helling a roadmap for peace in syria but there's skepticism that all of them will be able to stick to the summit play. don't know whether these protests. artie's crew hit with water cannons in turkey is the anti-government protests range on a report from the cradle of the an arrest.